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paulon 6:30 Mon May 25
Deluded fans and clueless owners
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He's a LONG SUFFERING FAN so it must be true.
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Welcome to West Ham United: the home of deluded fans and the most clueless owners
Four reasons why the departure of Allardyce leaves me worried, saddened and sick
By KIRAN MOODLEY
Monday 25 May 2015
It wasn't that much of a shock when West Ham announced Sam Allardyce's departure seven minutes after their defeat to Newcastle.
So much gossip dogged Big Sam’s tenure since he arrived at the Boleyn that it must be a relief for Allardyce to finally be rid of a club where he did everything that was expected of him - and yet that was never enough.
It is not just that the fans didn’t love him; those in charge – David Gold, David Sullivan and Karren Brady – never warmed to him either. The end of Big Sam's reign marks an interesting turning point for a club where 1964, 1965 and 1966 are not dates in history but days to be repeated: the past needs to be the present and the future. Allardyce was seemingly not getting the club any closer to the 1960s.
As a long-suffering supporter of West Ham, and a long-suffering backer of Allardyce, there are a number of reasons why his departure leaves me worried, saddened and sick.
1. The trinity of Gold, Sullivan and Brady
The three individuals have solidified the club’s finances, but in man-management terms, they have been difficult. Their treatment of Allardyce was akin to that of their first appointment, Avram Grant. They once left the Israeli in the lurch during an Arsenal game in 2011, when it was widely being reported that Martin O’Neill was set to replace him. Grant even threw his scarf into the stand and walked away from the Boleyn, desolate, after the match, thinking it was the end. In the end, O'Neill didn't budge.
Big Sam had to similarly battle a storm of speculation surrounding his job from the beginning. This was damaging to his set up. The team started well this season but form dipped. Yes, the blame must go to Allardyce. But is it not damaging to the manager, his ethos and his players that they exist in a bubble where the board are openly searching for new coaches when there is a slump?
Even worse, there is no direction as to what to do next. Rumours they want Carlo Ancelotti; they made an approach to Jurgen Klopp; they are panning on getting Rafa Benitez: if any of these men do come to E13, it would only be because their club of choice did not take them. Oh but don't worry, there's always Slaven Billic. He’s never managed in the Premier League before - whereas Sam has for over a decade - but hey, we're business people, we know how to hire managers. Remember Avram Grant?
2. The West Ham way
As a life-long Hammers fan, I have a sense of what the “West Ham way” is, as well as never really quite having seen it. For the West Ham way means the attractive, attacking, football of the Ron Greenwood/Jon Lyall-era.
The West Ham way brought trophies in 1964, 1965, 1975 and 1980. What has happened therefore is that this era is far too often hailed as something to hark back to, rather than something to move on from. It is no wonder West Ham fans get great pride at attacking Chelsea fans for having no history: it gives us a sense of historical superiority, because our modern-day superiority is non-existent.
Both Sir Alex Ferguson and Graeme Souness have spoken about this, with the latter saying on Allardyce's departure: "From my time of football, I'm fed up of hearing (about) the West Ham way. What is the West Ham way? They are a yoyo club."
3. Fan delusion
As a football fan, you always want your club to do better. But with West Ham there is a seeming fascination to build up our status beyond reality.
West Ham are not a safe Premier League club. They’ve experienced two relegations in the past decade. West Ham's highest Premier League finish is fifth, but that was 16 years ago. The club has always been flitting in and out of the top ten in the Premier League, as well as the league itself.
West Ham fans have the toxic combination of being obsessed with some historic claim to European top-flight football alongside the impatience of the modern-day game. We were promoted back in 2012 and by 2014 we were already calling for European football and FA Cup triumphs.
How could Sam provide FA Cup glory - missing for over three decades - just two years after ensuring promotion, and as he tried to find stability in a league they struggle to remain within?
4. Allardyce could do no right
Here is the crux of why Big Sam could never do shine at Upton Park: because when West Ham were winning, the praise went to those above him, and when they were losing, the fans took a sadomasochistic happiness in it: losing is bad, but it’s really good when you hate Big Sam. It’s as if there was some sort of pleasure in seeing form dip in the second half. Even though some games were unfortunate last-minute draws (Tottenham away, Manchester United home) and narrow defeats (Chelsea at home), there was a feeling around the club that loss was not a bad thing because it created an atmosphere for Big Sam to leave. By the last few games, it was like the club was willing the team to fail, to end the season on a low so that they were justified in not renewing Allardyce’s contract.
I look forward to greater days for West Ham. I just don't want a quick fix, I don't want instant results. I want a long-term plan to stability and success. Big Sam had started to do that, and he needed at least another season to finish it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/welcome-to-west-ham-united-the-home-of-deluded-fans-and-the-most-clueless-owners-10274038.html
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Replies - In Chronological Order ( Show Newest Messages First)
Nurse Ratched
6:32 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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Boys are silly.
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ACIrons
6:33 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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Sound like a bit of a Muppet to me.
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Vinny
6:35 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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My piece to counter...
https://vinnywhufc.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/the-sam-allardyce-era-ends/
I have spoken about Sam Allardyce at length over the last year and certainly questions about his future have been prominent over the last few months.
I have been honest about my feelings towards Allardyce and greatly welcome his departure.
Whichever way you argue your stance on Sam Allardyce the damning statistic remains with West Having won just three games in the last twenty one Premiership games.
Sections of the media and certain pundits have been vocal in their criticism of West Ham fans regarding Allardyce. The club are spoken about in a condescending manner and the fans are labelled as being ‘unrealistic’.
The question is often asked of me: “What do West Ham fans want?”
From a personal point of view, I want a manager who doesn’t appear to have contempt for the club he is managing and one who shows the history of the club a little bit more respect.
This “West Ham Way” may not be practical but it is an ethos the club has attempted to adhere to over the years and clubs like Swansea City and Southampton have proven you can be successful whilst playing a good brand of football as a smaller side.
I am told that the “West Ham Way” has never helped West Ham be successful but then I look at a period of the club’s proud history and have to disagree.
From 1964 to 1981 West Ham won three FA Cups, a charity shield, and a European Cup Winners’ Cup, as well as reaching the League Cup final and finishing as runners-up in another Cup Winners’ Cup final. Not to mention the Second Division title won in the same period.
For a club West Ham’s size, I don’t think that was a bad haul. So to dismiss or disrespect the history of the club is something that didn’t wash with me.
The phrase “Be careful what you wish for” is directed towards me frequently. I’m unsure what some are thinking that I am wishing for? Relegation? I don’t think finishing above Stoke City, Crystal Palace, Swansea City and even Southampton is beyond West Ham. If that is being unrealistic then I clearly am suffering delusions.
I don’t feel the need to thank Sam Allardyce for the job he has done. I am pleased that the club are in a much better position to when he took over and for that I will give him credit and whilst I don’t want to appear churlish, I still don’t see the job he had as the most difficult in football.
It is difficult to recall any other Championship side who could go out and spend £5m on a player and keep him on his 50k a week wage. Similarly I cannot remember a West Ham manager who has seen more money spent on a squad in the history of the club.
So yes, his remit was to gain promotion and keep the club in the Premiership. That he has done. Could another manager have achieved this or was this simply a miracle only able to be conjured up by Sam Allardyce? I’m not so sure.
What Sam Allardyce has done is divide the supporters. No manager in the 20 years I have been going to West Ham has divided opinion as much as he.
I’m often asked who I want to come in to replace him. I am just eager to see a manager with some respect for the supporters and who has a winning mentality because teams that win a lot of games and do well in the Premiership are the best teams. Teams who play rubbish football often do badly. This point seems to have been lost over the last 4 years.
Me not thanking him doesn’t mean much though, just as him not even acknowledging the fans in his final post match interview doesn‘t. It is just the markings of a man who never tried to build a relationship with the West Ham supporters.
The quest to find a new manager begins and it is arguably the most important appointment the club have had to make in the clubs history.
This is a massive summer for West Ham and there will be plenty of transfer activity to go with the new managerial appointment.
I look forward with optimism and hope and refuse to be dragged down by sections of the media, other football supporters and some West Ham fans who believe that Sam Allardyce was as good as this club is going to get.
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Takashi Miike
6:36 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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kiran sounds like a fucking proper wet lettuce cunt
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ACIrons
6:36 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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Well done Vinny, what ever happened to your regular pieces on here, I used to enjoy them a lot.
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Takashi Miike
6:37 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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.....and he's really missed the point if he thinked the walrus's critics enjoyed losing games. utter cunt
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Takashi Miike
6:37 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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nice piece vinny
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Staffs-Hammer
6:40 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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I'm not even going to disembowel that article properly, although I agree with him, to an extent, on point #2, but, overall he is an idiot best ignored.
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B6NY B
6:43 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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WHAT A FUCKING QUEEN
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Vinny
6:43 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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This is a tweet from Kiran.
I love #whufc fans saying they don't care. The hatred of Allardyce and question marks over his future have ruined the end of season.
@kirancmoodley
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Sxboy_66
6:51 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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What an utter fuck-nugget.
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Nagel
6:53 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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So our second half of the season slump had nothing to do with Sam deciding to change a winning team, formation and tactics. It was the fault of the board and the fans for not showing him enough love.
The article should be renamed Clueless article by deluded idiot.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
6:54 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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He's got a bit of a point on 2), 3) and 4) but he over-eggs his pudding. And quite honestly, the title of the piece doesn't help his cause.
For me, Allardyce did everything that was asked of him for three and a half years. But to perform as we have for the past 10 eminently winnable matches shows he cannot motivate beyond, 'make sure we stay up'.
So, IMHO, thanks Sam and well played the owners. Now (and I'm not expecting Europe) let's get a manager who can take advantage of consistent investment and play all season instead of half of it, as we have done now three years out of four.
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Bungo
6:55 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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Can anyone explain this other tweet of his to me?
Kiran Moodley @kirancmoodley · May 24
We're bad because we want us to be bad #whufc
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NEVER SAY DIE
6:56 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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Vinny superb post mate, reckon that sums up how the majority feel
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Staffs-Hammer
6:57 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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@kirancmoodley
All tweets are my own and fabulous.
Cock.
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Willtell
6:58 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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Good response vinny. Personally I think WH fans have endured the anti-christ of football for at least two years too many. All these critics seem to forget the facts of SA's record since Christmas where our record is similar to QPR's.
Most other clubs would have been calling for SA's head long before now. Not because of history or the WH Way but because SA is a dreadful, one game-plan manager incapable of keeping up with the modern game. Winning only 3 games in 21 since Christmas is relegation form.
How sad that we fans get criticised by idiot commentators and our own so-called fans for supporting the ambitions of our owners. That is the real problem I believe. Others see WH about to move out of the comfortable little box they have us in and they are jealous...
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1985
6:58 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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"must be a relief for Allardyce to finally be rid of a club where he did everything that was expected of him"
I thought one of the targets Sullivan set BFS was a target of a top 10 finish. I that's the case he didn't do everything that was expected of him.
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Bungo
7:00 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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1985 6:58 Mon May 25
..And 50 points wasn't it?
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ACIrons
7:03 Mon May 25
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
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What he's got so wrong is the fact that we'd all loved to have been proved wrong, had we continued winning and had a good season we'd all be happy enough wouldn't we? If only most of our performances had been like the Man City home game. They weren't though were they and most of us are fully aware of the FACT that the period in which we were doing well was mostly down to Carrol and Nolan being out injured.
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